Author Topic: Number 153: Vesica Pisces-The Measure of The Fish!  (Read 13559 times)

Offline Michael Sherlock

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Number 153: Vesica Pisces-The Measure of The Fish!
« on: September 24, 2012, 02:54:31 PM »
In the Gospel of “John,” the author, whomever he might have been, alleged that Jesus’ disciples met the resurrected Jesus, whilst fishing.  Apparently, they weren’t too convinced by his earthly miracles and following his death, returned to their former profession, fishing!  The story of this incredible meeting is as follows:

Afterward Jesus appeared again to his disciples, by the Sea of Galilee. It happened this way: Simon Peter, Thomas (also known as Didymus), Nathanael from Cana in Galilee, the sons of Zebedee, and two other disciples were together.  “I’m going out to fish,” Simon Peter told them, and they said, “We’ll go with you.” So they went out and got into the boat, but that night they caught nothing.
Early in the morning, Jesus stood on the shore, but the disciples did not realize that it was Jesus.
He called out to them, “Friends, haven’t you any fish?”
“No,” they answered.
He said, “Throw your net on the right side of the boat and you will find some.” When they did, they were unable to haul the net in because of the large number of fish.
Then the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord!” As soon as Simon Peter heard him say, “It is the Lord,” he wrapped his outer garment around him (for he had taken it off) and jumped into the water. The other disciples followed in the boat, towing the net full of fish, for they were not far from shore, about a hundred yards.  When they landed, they saw a fire of burning coals there with fish on it, and some bread.  Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish you have just caught.” So Simon Peter climbed back into the boat and dragged the net ashore. It was full of large fish, 153, but even with so many the net was not torn.
                           “John” 21:1-11

Leaving aside the apparent absurdity regarding the fact that his disciples did not recognize their teacher, lord and saviour in the flesh, or the fact that even after realizing the son of God was standing before them, they still stopped to count the 153 fish; there is a symbolic aspect to this tale, which may be derived from the Pythagoreans.
The author of “John” tells us that there were exactly 153 fish!  Now, if the story be a fiction, or allegory, and I think that it may well be, then we have to ask, why 153 fish and are there any earlier tales, from other legends or mythologies that the author(s) of this Gospel may have been drawing from.   
Let us begin with the number 153.
This number was sacred to the cult of the Pythagoreans, as it is a mathematically significant number.  153 is a triangular number(1) and also, each digit cubed and added together produce the number 153 (2), but this is not the most significant fact about this number for the purpose of this investigation.  To illustrate the most significant aspect of this number for our comparison between the Pythagoreans and the later Christians, allow me to present a diagram, depicting a very popular Pythagorean symbol.

Here is the Diagram:



Notice the centre shape, or vesica pisces, or ‘Ichthys’ as it later came to be known.  It has a ratio of 153/256 and so, the number 153 became known to the people living prior to, and contemporaneously with, the author of “John’s” Gospel as, the ‘Measure of The Fish.’

We know that this ‘measure of the fish’ goes back to at least the third-century BCE, for we have the testimony of the famous mathematician, Archimedes, in his ‘Measurement of Circles’ who referred to this ratio (153/265), as constituting the ‘measure of the fish.’(3)

So, we have enough to establish that the Vesica Pisces was a symbol going back to the third-century BCE, if not further, and also, later we see this symbolic shape in early Christian art and architecture.  Below are two examples:









Ok, so at present we have a symbolically significant number relating to fish, woven into a narrative about fishermen catching a whole heap of fish in their nets.  This alone, merely gives us grounds to ponder a connection; however, when coupled with an ancient tale of Pythagoras, we are given more justification to seriously consider that the author of “John” may have been drawing upon this ancient allegory.

Writing in the third-century CE, the Neoplatonist, Iamblichus, author of the 'Life of Pythagoras,' relayed an ancient tale of Pythagoras and it is as follows:

AT that time also, when he was journeying from Sybaris to Crotona, he met near the shore with some fishermen, who were then drawing their nets heavily laden with fishes from the deep, and told them he knew the exact number of the fish they had caught. But the fishermen promising they would perform whatever he should order them to do, if the event corresponded with his prediction, he ordered them, after they had accurately numbered the fish, to return them alive to the sea: and what is yet more wonderful, not one of the fish died while he stood on the shore, though they had been detained from the water a considerable time. Having therefore paid the fishermen the price of their fish, he departed for Crotona.(4)
 
Although the number of fish in the tale is not mentioned, it has, for obvious reasons, been suggested that the number of fish in this story, was the measure, or number of the fish, 153.

What do you guys think?   



References

1.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_153
2.   Ibid.
3.   David Fideler. Ancient Cosmology and Early Christian Symbolism. The Theosophical Publishing House. (1993). p. 307.
4.   Iamblichus. (trans. Thomas Taylor). Life of Pythagoras. J.M Watkins. (1818). p. 17
.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 03:17:23 PM by Michael Sherlock »
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.”  ~Bertrand Russell

Offline Ohme

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Re: Number 153: Vesica Pisces-The Measure of The Fish!
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2012, 07:25:33 PM »
In the Gospel of “John,” the author, whomever he might have been, alleged that Jesus’ disciples met the resurrected Jesus, whilst fishing.  Apparently, they weren’t too convinced by his earthly miracles and following his death, returned to their former profession, fishing!  The story of this incredible meeting is as follows:

Afterward Jesus appeared again to his disciples, by the Sea of Galilee. It happened this way: Simon Peter, Thomas (also known as Didymus), Nathanael from Cana in Galilee, the sons of Zebedee, and two other disciples were together.  “I’m going out to fish,” Simon Peter told them, and they said, “We’ll go with you.” So they went out and got into the boat, but that night they caught nothing.
Early in the morning, Jesus stood on the shore, but the disciples did not realize that it was Jesus.
He called out to them, “Friends, haven’t you any fish?”
“No,” they answered.
He said, “Throw your net on the right side of the boat and you will find some.” When they did, they were unable to haul the net in because of the large number of fish.
Then the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord!” As soon as Simon Peter heard him say, “It is the Lord,” he wrapped his outer garment around him (for he had taken it off) and jumped into the water. The other disciples followed in the boat, towing the net full of fish, for they were not far from shore, about a hundred yards.  When they landed, they saw a fire of burning coals there with fish on it, and some bread.  Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish you have just caught.” So Simon Peter climbed back into the boat and dragged the net ashore. It was full of large fish, 153, but even with so many the net was not torn.
                           “John” 21:1-11

Leaving aside the apparent absurdity regarding the fact that his disciples did not recognize their teacher, lord and saviour in the flesh, or the fact that even after realizing the son of God was standing before them, they still stopped to count the 153 fish; there is a symbolic aspect to this tale, which may be derived from the Pythagoreans.
The author of “John” tells us that there were exactly 153 fish!  Now, if the story be a fiction, or allegory, and I think that it may well be, then we have to ask, why 153 fish and are there any earlier tales, from other legends or mythologies that the author(s) of this Gospel may have been drawing from.   
Let us begin with the number 153.
This number was sacred to the cult of the Pythagoreans, as it is a mathematically significant number.  153 is a triangular number(1) and also, each digit cubed and added together produce the number 153 (2), but this is not the most significant fact about this number for the purpose of this investigation.  To illustrate the most significant aspect of this number for our comparison between the Pythagoreans and the later Christians, allow me to present a diagram, depicting a very popular Pythagorean symbol.

Here is the Diagram:



Notice the centre shape, or vesica pisces, or ‘Ichthys’ as it later came to be known.  It has a ratio of 153/256 and so, the number 153 became known to the people living prior to, and contemporaneously with, the author of “John’s” Gospel as, the ‘Measure of The Fish.’

We know that this ‘measure of the fish’ goes back to at least the third-century BCE, for we have the testimony of the famous mathematician, Archimedes, in his ‘Measurement of Circles’ who referred to this ratio (153/265), as constituting the ‘measure of the fish.’(3)

So, we have enough to establish that the Vesica Pisces was a symbol going back to the third-century BCE, if not further, and also, later we see this symbolic shape in early Christian art and architecture.  Below are two examples:









Ok, so at present we have a symbolically significant number relating to fish, woven into a narrative about fishermen catching a whole heap of fish in their nets.  This alone, merely gives us grounds to ponder a connection; however, when coupled with an ancient tale of Pythagoras, we are given more justification to seriously consider that the author of “John” may have been drawing upon this ancient allegory.

Writing in the third-century CE, the Neoplatonist, Iamblichus, author of the 'Life of Pythagoras,' relayed an ancient tale of Pythagoras and it is as follows:

AT that time also, when he was journeying from Sybaris to Crotona, he met near the shore with some fishermen, who were then drawing their nets heavily laden with fishes from the deep, and told them he knew the exact number of the fish they had caught. But the fishermen promising they would perform whatever he should order them to do, if the event corresponded with his prediction, he ordered them, after they had accurately numbered the fish, to return them alive to the sea: and what is yet more wonderful, not one of the fish died while he stood on the shore, though they had been detained from the water a considerable time. Having therefore paid the fishermen the price of their fish, he departed for Crotona.(4)
 
Although the number of fish in the tale is not mentioned, it has, for obvious reasons, been suggested that the number of fish in this story, was the measure, or number of the fish, 153.

What do you guys think?   



References

1.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_153
2.   Ibid.
3.   David Fideler. Ancient Cosmology and Early Christian Symbolism. The Theosophical Publishing House. (1993). p. 307.
4.   Iamblichus. (trans. Thomas Taylor). Life of Pythagoras. J.M Watkins. (1818). p. 17
.


There is definately something intrinsic to this number. Was on a private list with some of these guys back in 2004, and mr Milamo was a bit too out there for my understanding at the time, and has this to say about the 153:


Quote
The number 153 is very important, and I won't go into all of the aspects here, except to point out that it is half of 306, which in turn is the sum of 144 + 162 .... and these numbers are decimal harmonics of Bruce Cathie's speed-of-light equivalents of 144000 nautical miles per 'grid second' and 162000 nautical miles per second. We also find 306 as azimuth node number 17 on the 'wheel of 20 nodes', where the nodes are 18 degrees apart. The 20-part wheel (see work of Joe Mason) is also a symbol of the Mayan Haab Calendar cycle of 18 'months' of 20 days each month.

17 x 9 = 153

Now ... 497 - 153 = 344, which is always July 4th on the Mayan Haab Calendar, because Day Number 360 is always July 20th. (I will note here that the 153rd course of masonry from the ground, on The Great Pyramid, is 360 FEET above the ground ... see work of Jimi Furia).

344 = 227 + 117, and 117 can be visualized as "half-Pi", or (11 / 7) approximation. Also, 117 = 19.5 x 6, where there are 6 places at 19.5 degrees north and south, at which 6 vertices of two interlocking tetrahedra touch the surface of a circumscribing sphere ... assuming the remaining two vertices are touching at the poles. This is a model of "hyperdimensional physics", as discussed by researcher and journalist Richard C. Hoagland, as applied to certain dynamics of rotating celestial bodies.

http://matrix-messenger.tripod.com/mat_11.htm

I was actually looking for Joe Mason's work on it, because he seemed rather obsessed with it all at the time! Having just found their site again, Great Dreams, I see he is gone everywhere with things like 11:11, crop circles, harmonics and most other things the mainstream would lock him up for! Here's his thoughts on the 153:

http://www.greatdreams.com/numbers/jerry/153.htm


If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe - Carl Sagan

Offline Michael Sherlock

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Re: Number 153: Vesica Pisces-The Measure of The Fish!
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2012, 08:30:24 PM »
Thanks Ohme!  Yeh, I had a look at the Great Dreams Site too, wow, numbers, not my strong point!  It is funny, the thing I am most fascinated by and admire the most, is my weakest aspect!
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.”  ~Bertrand Russell

Offline Ohme

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Re: Number 153: Vesica Pisces-The Measure of The Fish!
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2012, 08:35:01 PM »
Thanks Ohme!  Yeh, I had a look at the Great Dreams Site too, wow, numbers, not my strong point!  It is funny, the thing I am most fascinated by and admire the most, is my weakest aspect!

well I got into numbers by observing females in my earlier years, lol!
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe - Carl Sagan

Offline Michael Sherlock

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Re: Number 153: Vesica Pisces-The Measure of The Fish!
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2012, 08:36:57 PM »
Ahh!  Motivation, the key to success!
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.”  ~Bertrand Russell

Offline ChristianDuer

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Re: Number 153: Vesica Pisces-The Measure of The Fish!
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2012, 03:57:43 AM »
you guys missed the "wiki-page" on Number-153 where it has loads more connotations than those expressed above. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/153_(number)#Mathematical_properties

Maybe the Jewish-Xtians pinched it from the Greeks, but then how do you account for the prolific use of the Number "Seven" right throughout scriptures - ten times more mentions than any other number ?
Take then the Jewish Alaphbet 22 letters (22 Old-testament Chapters in Jewish bibles); twenty-two verses of Lamentations (that in itself is massive, separate subject) & twenty-two verses of Psalm-199
& 22/7 = Pi = 3.143
there is even more to this than first meets the eye a well - is the bible a giant maths puzzle book ?
(after all the Jews never had numbers until recently and always counted numbers via Gematria)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 04:00:15 AM by ChristianDuer »
& Jesus said "this is the Very TOP command - to love God{YHWH} with everything and to treat others as you yourself would also like to be treated" Matt22

Offline Michael Sherlock

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Re: Number 153: Vesica Pisces-The Measure of The Fish!
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2012, 11:54:15 AM »
you guys missed the "wiki-page" on Number-153 where it has loads more connotations than those expressed above. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/153_(number)#Mathematical_properties

Maybe the Jewish-Xtians pinched it from the Greeks, but then how do you account for the prolific use of the Number "Seven" right throughout scriptures - ten times more mentions than any other number ?
Take then the Jewish Alaphbet 22 letters (22 Old-testament Chapters in Jewish bibles); twenty-two verses of Lamentations (that in itself is massive, separate subject) & twenty-two verses of Psalm-199
& 22/7 = Pi = 3.143
there is even more to this than first meets the eye a well - is the bible a giant maths puzzle book ?
(after all the Jews never had numbers until recently and always counted numbers via Gematria)

The number 7 has been considered a divine number centuries before both Judaism and Christianity arose.  It is the only number within the numbers 1-10 which is unbegotten and unbegetting!  Aristotle and many other early commentators wrote on this number.
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.”  ~Bertrand Russell

Offline ChristianDuer

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Re: Number 153: Vesica Pisces-The Measure of The Fish!
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2012, 06:05:09 PM »
Hi Michael,
completely agreed, but why is it so hugely prominent throughout the bible ?
Moreso the use of various other numbers throughout the bible is quite obvious and spotted by both Stephen Langton and Cardinal Hugo (responsible for both chps & verse numbering)

- take Genesis chp7. (flood story)
* seven pairs of clean animals
* seven birds
* seven days
* seventeen days of second month (77 days)
* 150 days (=21 weeks or 3*7 weeks)
* SEVEN meters above the mountains the water rose !
What's with all these sevens ???? and it even carries on into chp 8

hundreds of these instances of "symbolical numbers" throughout the bible.
Hope that you can see something in this being far more than coincidence

« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 06:07:32 PM by ChristianDuer »
& Jesus said "this is the Very TOP command - to love God{YHWH} with everything and to treat others as you yourself would also like to be treated" Matt22

Offline Michael Sherlock

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Re: Number 153: Vesica Pisces-The Measure of The Fish!
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2012, 08:51:25 AM »
Hi Michael,
completely agreed, but why is it so hugely prominent throughout the bible ?
Moreso the use of various other numbers throughout the bible is quite obvious and spotted by both Stephen Langton and Cardinal Hugo (responsible for both chps & verse numbering)

- take Genesis chp7. (flood story)
* seven pairs of clean animals
* seven birds
* seven days
* seventeen days of second month (77 days)
* 150 days (=21 weeks or 3*7 weeks)
* SEVEN meters above the mountains the water rose !
What's with all these sevens ???? and it even carries on into chp 8

hundreds of these instances of "symbolical numbers" throughout the bible.
Hope that you can see something in this being far more than coincidence



A possible answer to your question is that the original authors of these copied/adopted myths, practiced numerology and Gematria, and so numbers carried significant symbolic value and worked as kinds of keys to unwrap some of the allegorical fiction to reveal astronomical, psychological and other forms of hidden truths.  I go into all this stuff in the third volume of my series, as I have studied these kinds of riddles for quite a few years now.  Most of them descend from Sumer/Babylon and Egypt and some of the later ones, although being directly sourced from Hellenistic and Persian sources, derive also from the aforementioned empires.  The septenary is one of the most significant, which is why across the globe from ancient times, there have been 7 days in a week, each day being symbolized by the same planets, in no matter what culture you are in. 
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.”  ~Bertrand Russell

Offline ChristianDuer

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Re: Number 153: Vesica Pisces-The Measure of The Fish!
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2012, 05:14:11 AM »
Hi Michael,
My only concerns with this is "when does coincidence cease to be just a coincidence" ?
Now at least you don't dismiss the idea of them incorporating maths into their scriptures. but there is far more - because they have been, to coin a phrase; "religious-zealots" about the use of certain numbers to symbolize various ideas and concerns - fanatical about it even. - Esp the number 7

take the "22 letter Jewish Aleph-bet" which is featured very strongly in several chapters, verses and even whole books (Lamentations) and remember that the Hebrews / Jews (like several other languages (notably Greek)) never used separate numbers but included them into their Aleph-bet (ie: a=1, b=2, ect)

22/7 = Pi = 3.143 approx

Now, I may be putting my rep on the line {yikes}, or I may be onto something much bigger. But plse take a look at this very interesting study on the very first verse of Genesis and see the connotations of the number of seven - Now I swear that if this was not the in bibles very first verse but was rather found in the writings of any other ancient culture (Mayans, Egyptians, Sanskrit, Sumerians etc) then it would (imho) certainly be major head-line news - please then have a look at this first installment and see if i have anything with bible numbers

- http://asis.com/users/stag/godcount.html


« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 05:26:15 AM by ChristianDuer »
& Jesus said "this is the Very TOP command - to love God{YHWH} with everything and to treat others as you yourself would also like to be treated" Matt22

Azrael

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Re: Number 153: Vesica Pisces-The Measure of The Fish!
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2012, 08:16:08 AM »
Trying to prove a god with numbers is reaching....The myth of jesus and god cannot be proven by adding a bunch of numbers then assuming a god wrote them since we all know no god wrote the bible.

Offline Michael Sherlock

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Re: Number 153: Vesica Pisces-The Measure of The Fish!
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2012, 09:07:08 AM »
Hi Michael,
My only concerns with this is "when does coincidence cease to be just a coincidence" ?
Now at least you don't dismiss the idea of them incorporating maths into their scriptures. but there is far more - because they have been, to coin a phrase; "religious-zealots" about the use of certain numbers to symbolize various ideas and concerns - fanatical about it even. - Esp the number 7

take the "22 letter Jewish Aleph-bet" which is featured very strongly in several chapters, verses and even whole books (Lamentations) and remember that the Hebrews / Jews (like several other languages (notably Greek)) never used separate numbers but included them into their Aleph-bet (ie: a=1, b=2, ect)

22/7 = Pi = 3.143 approx

Now, I may be putting my rep on the line {yikes}, or I may be onto something much bigger. But plse take a look at this very interesting study on the very first verse of Genesis and see the connotations of the number of seven - Now I swear that if this was not the in bibles very first verse but was rather found in the writings of any other ancient culture (Mayans, Egyptians, Sanskrit, Sumerians etc) then it would (imho) certainly be major head-line news - please then have a look at this first installment and see if i have anything with bible numbers

- http://asis.com/users/stag/godcount.html




I have looked at this and I am divided on the issue.  On the one hand, there is quite abit of evidence to suggest that the mythographers of the Hebrew Scriptures, living possibly no earlier than the 6th century BCE, were compitent mathematicians, however, on the other, in a large volume of work, you can find patterns if you look hard enough!  War and Peace is a classic example.  It just depends on a) your motivations, i.e, what you "want" to find and b) the creativity of the investigator, in seeking out and adjusting methods to find such patterns.  I hardly think it is the work of an all-knowing creator, but then again, who am I to definitively say NO?  Interesting stuff though, that is for sure.
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.”  ~Bertrand Russell

Offline Ohme

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Re: Number 153: Vesica Pisces-The Measure of The Fish!
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2012, 09:25:53 AM »
Hi Michael,
My only concerns with this is "when does coincidence cease to be just a coincidence" ?
Now at least you don't dismiss the idea of them incorporating maths into their scriptures. but there is far more - because they have been, to coin a phrase; "religious-zealots" about the use of certain numbers to symbolize various ideas and concerns - fanatical about it even. - Esp the number 7

take the "22 letter Jewish Aleph-bet" which is featured very strongly in several chapters, verses and even whole books (Lamentations) and remember that the Hebrews / Jews (like several other languages (notably Greek)) never used separate numbers but included them into their Aleph-bet (ie: a=1, b=2, ect)

22/7 = Pi = 3.143 approx

Now, I may be putting my rep on the line {yikes}, or I may be onto something much bigger. But plse take a look at this very interesting study on the very first verse of Genesis and see the connotations of the number of seven - Now I swear that if this was not the in bibles very first verse but was rather found in the writings of any other ancient culture (Mayans, Egyptians, Sanskrit, Sumerians etc) then it would (imho) certainly be major head-line news - please then have a look at this first installment and see if i have anything with bible numbers

- http://asis.com/users/stag/godcount.html




I have looked at this and I am divided on the issue.  On the one hand, there is quite abit of evidence to suggest that the mythographers of the Hebrew Scriptures, living possibly no earlier than the 6th century BCE, were compitent mathematicians, however, on the other, in a large volume of work, you can find patterns if you look hard enough!  War and Peace is a classic example.  It just depends on a) your motivations, i.e, what you "want" to find and b) the creativity of the investigator, in seeking out and adjusting methods to find such patterns.  I hardly think it is the work of an all-knowing creator, but then again, who am I to definitively say NO?  Interesting stuff though, that is for sure.

Talking of spooky, did you know that the first 144 decimal places of the Pi fraction add up to 666? Big gematrian numbers at your natural doorstep!
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe - Carl Sagan

Offline Michael Sherlock

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Re: Number 153: Vesica Pisces-The Measure of The Fish!
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2012, 10:47:59 AM »
Hi Michael,
My only concerns with this is "when does coincidence cease to be just a coincidence" ?
Now at least you don't dismiss the idea of them incorporating maths into their scriptures. but there is far more - because they have been, to coin a phrase; "religious-zealots" about the use of certain numbers to symbolize various ideas and concerns - fanatical about it even. - Esp the number 7

take the "22 letter Jewish Aleph-bet" which is featured very strongly in several chapters, verses and even whole books (Lamentations) and remember that the Hebrews / Jews (like several other languages (notably Greek)) never used separate numbers but included them into their Aleph-bet (ie: a=1, b=2, ect)

22/7 = Pi = 3.143 approx

Now, I may be putting my rep on the line {yikes}, or I may be onto something much bigger. But plse take a look at this very interesting study on the very first verse of Genesis and see the connotations of the number of seven - Now I swear that if this was not the in bibles very first verse but was rather found in the writings of any other ancient culture (Mayans, Egyptians, Sanskrit, Sumerians etc) then it would (imho) certainly be major head-line news - please then have a look at this first installment and see if i have anything with bible numbers

- http://asis.com/users/stag/godcount.html




I have looked at this and I am divided on the issue.  On the one hand, there is quite abit of evidence to suggest that the mythographers of the Hebrew Scriptures, living possibly no earlier than the 6th century BCE, were compitent mathematicians, however, on the other, in a large volume of work, you can find patterns if you look hard enough!  War and Peace is a classic example.  It just depends on a) your motivations, i.e, what you "want" to find and b) the creativity of the investigator, in seeking out and adjusting methods to find such patterns.  I hardly think it is the work of an all-knowing creator, but then again, who am I to definitively say NO?  Interesting stuff though, that is for sure.

Talking of spooky, did you know that the first 144 decimal places of the Pi fraction add up to 666? Big gematrian numbers at your natural doorstep!


I guess the logical question to ask here is; why is the number 144 significant, or, how is it related to 666?
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.”  ~Bertrand Russell

Offline Valmar

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Re: Number 153: Vesica Pisces-The Measure of The Fish!
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2012, 11:21:59 AM »
Hi Michael,
My only concerns with this is "when does coincidence cease to be just a coincidence" ?
Now at least you don't dismiss the idea of them incorporating maths into their scriptures. but there is far more - because they have been, to coin a phrase; "religious-zealots" about the use of certain numbers to symbolize various ideas and concerns - fanatical about it even. - Esp the number 7

take the "22 letter Jewish Aleph-bet" which is featured very strongly in several chapters, verses and even whole books (Lamentations) and remember that the Hebrews / Jews (like several other languages (notably Greek)) never used separate numbers but included them into their Aleph-bet (ie: a=1, b=2, ect)

22/7 = Pi = 3.143 approx

Now, I may be putting my rep on the line {yikes}, or I may be onto something much bigger. But plse take a look at this very interesting study on the very first verse of Genesis and see the connotations of the number of seven - Now I swear that if this was not the in bibles very first verse but was rather found in the writings of any other ancient culture (Mayans, Egyptians, Sanskrit, Sumerians etc) then it would (imho) certainly be major head-line news - please then have a look at this first installment and see if i have anything with bible numbers

- http://asis.com/users/stag/godcount.html




I have looked at this and I am divided on the issue.  On the one hand, there is quite abit of evidence to suggest that the mythographers of the Hebrew Scriptures, living possibly no earlier than the 6th century BCE, were compitent mathematicians, however, on the other, in a large volume of work, you can find patterns if you look hard enough!  War and Peace is a classic example.  It just depends on a) your motivations, i.e, what you "want" to find and b) the creativity of the investigator, in seeking out and adjusting methods to find such patterns.  I hardly think it is the work of an all-knowing creator, but then again, who am I to definitively say NO?  Interesting stuff though, that is for sure.

Talking of spooky, did you know that the first 144 decimal places of the Pi fraction add up to 666? Big gematrian numbers at your natural doorstep!


I guess the logical question to ask here is; why is the number 144 significant, or, how is it related to 666?

This may not answer the question exactly...but 666 and 144 both equal 9.
666=18=9
144=9
Thus: 144=666
Even so...the first 144 decimal numbers of the Pi fraction adding up to 666... O_o
Fuck that's awesome...
“The dao that can be told is not the eternal Dao.”
― Lǎozǐ